This is great Wendy. Such a minefield. I recently strayed into what probably should have been parental territory with my granddaughter over a contemporary book about puberty called What’s Happening to Me? We got to the page about how making a baby actually happens. Very good - straightforward and clear. Saying it exactly how it is. Her response was “So you did this thing with grandpa twice?”
Yes, my daughter told her little brother, with great drama, that mum and dad "had done sex TWICE", very proud of her deduction after school sex education around year 6.
I remember finding out a book about human reproduction at home when I was not a child but not yet a teenager. It had drawings and one of them showed a man and a woman with the man inside the woman. When I saw that and realised what was happening I thought, "Whaaaaat? It goes inside???" For some reason I thought human reproduction happened a bit like polinisation and that it was enough to touch the surface 😂
I like this piece a lot Wendy. It reminds me of so many awkward conversations (and non-conversations) with my darling mum. As I write this my toes are curling. Thank you.
Thanks, Gillian. Hard to strike a balance, isn’t it? My mum was a mix of puritanical (clothed at all times; would cover herself in strategically placed flannels if I had to use the bathroom while she was in the bath. Sanitary products – “unmentionables” – were wrapped in brown paper in the airing cupboard). But not at all squeamish, and interested in science (she would have made a good surgeon!).
Dr Whites wrapped in brown paper! My sister and I were sent on a 3 mile walk to the village shop with a shopping list in a sealed envelope addressed to a strong woman who served customers before serve-yourself was a thing. One day my sister bravely and boldly asked ‘what’s in the brown paper?’and came the answer, after a thoughtful pause, ‘chocolates’. I don’t remember much beyond the shock and resentment that fuelled our long walk home thinking of all the chocolates our mum had eaten herself without sharing after we had made the long walk to get them. That was my sex education until a few years later when my dad sat us down as teenagers and told us we must be kind and helpful to our mum because she was poorly. We didn’t ask questions. We thought she was going to die. She sailed through the menopause without any obvious poorliness.
Oh Jo, that’s tragic! What a mystery it all was for you, then. And your dad’s comment, with no explanation of what he meant by ´poorly’. Argh! Thanks so much for reading, and for sharing that memory.
(My mum kept her Dr Whites wrapped in paper, too, stored in the airing cupboard. Called them her ´woolly-woollies’.)
Ooh I think we had the body book! We also had a pop up facts of life book (I remember one page opened to deliver a baby). Mom was pretty open and told us all the relevant info. But at school we only learned about periods - no sex Ed as such. No idea what the boys were taught!
Yes, anyone who didn’t do biology at my school would have got zero sex education. And biology only covered plants and, like yours, I think the menstrual cycle. Next to useless!
So many memories, Wendy. We were at primary school and the head teacher wheeled in the huge tv on a trolley - a few whoops from the boys, we thought it was a film. It was Living and Growing. I can't remember what my son's sex ed was at school, but walking down Finchley Road with his hand in mine he suddenly asked (apropos of nothing) "how does the man's sperm get into the woman's body?" and I explained "the man puts his penis into the woman's vagina and the sperm swims to the egg", trying not to be overheard by everyone in NW3. He looked horrified and spat "ughhhh... I will never do that". Mind you, when asking about public hair he looked similarly horrified and told me "I will shave my balls every day". Might remind him of that...
Ha, yes! The skill of fielding any question at any time. Good on you for not shushing him till you got indoors. My daughters were adamant when they heard what “snogging” was that they were never going anywhere near boys. I think we described it as a bit like eating a juicy melon.
I very much did that thing of ‘if he asks, tell him, in age appropriate language’ (had to go through that about his absent dad), and it really worked. He asked, I told him, and he was fine with it. Death too. I am pissing myself at eating a juicy melon! My first forays into snogging (with David Campbell) were a pointy tongue jabbing mine 🤢
A great survey of sex ed over the decades and Caroline’s comments were very funny. My parents decided it was time for me (as the eldest) to learn the facts of life and put The Body Book in my stocking (god forbid they’d actually talk to me about it). Only they mixed the stockings up and gave it to my younger sister, while I got a Richard Scarry book 🤦🏼♀️
Thanks, Sasha. Putting the need-to-knows in your Christmas stocking is a novel idea – how funny! I hope you and your sister got to read each other’s books!
Great piece, Wendy! When I started asking my Mum questions, back in the 1980s, I got the "special cuddle" version - but I never knew it came from Claire Rayner until now! Now it all makes sense. :D I remember seeing lots of science videos at school, too, which just made the "special cuddle" description funnier.
It passed into family legend so, when I had my own babies and my parents would come with us to the park, we'd see piles of frogs in the pond. I'd yell out, "Look Mum! All those frogs are having a giant special cuddle!" And we'd all laugh. ;D
There was physical info when I was at school but I don’t remember much about relationships or consent, though they did say ‘no means no’. Online safety wasn’t discussed much either (pre-smartphones). As soon as cameraphones came in a friend had to deal with a boy asking for nudes and that was totally new.
A policeman came into school to talk about drugs and said ‘girls, don’t leave your drinks unattended, keep your thumb in the bottle, it does happen here’ - then jovially warned us that the police could bodily search anyone they suspected of having drugs on them. He was trying to discourage drug use but in retrospect the message I took from this was that our only protectors were our own thumbs, and policemen could be sexual threats. Bleak!
Oh yikes. What mixed messages from the policeman. Very bleak, yes.
Yes, I stopped short of going into online safety. So much to say, but I stuck to facts of life. There were assemblies when M was at secondary about the risks of sexting and such. As I was involved in the parent voice group, I got a snapshot (no pun intended) of what they were covering and of what some of the real issues were in school, trying to help the kids navigate that.
Love thinking of Nana investigating the placenta! I never heard that story.
A friend recalled sadly in recent years that the high school sex Ed for teens in the early ‘00s could be summed up as how to put a condom on a cucumber — but no emotional stuff. It was the age of Girl Power and weirdly that seemed to mean that girls were hoped or expected to be confident & worldly all under our own initiative… choice & self-protection in any other sense was not on the curriculum.
That friend was harassed by a horse trainer ‘friend’ from the age of 11, and she cd have benefitted from some serious self-defence knowledge, which wasn’t really available to her. The stress combined with her cluelessness about his motives, wasted much time in what should have been happy teenage years!
I also remember another girl chatting to me at school, telling me her older boyfriend, by 2 years, was pressuring her.
I had no idea what to say! She seemed to think I was a wise soul, and clearly wanted advice from a classmate, not her parents, but there’s a big knowledge gap that friends would always struggle to fill. Just Seventeen must have been great to fill in on some of these much more complex aspects of growing up.
The placenta was so typical of her. Gather round, children, let’s examine it first, shall we?! Trisha won’t mind!
Yes, lots of condoms on cucumbers in your day, I remember you talking about that. And you’re right about Girl Power. All the onus was on girls to be in charge, confident, body- and sex- positive, all that stuff.
I don’t think there was any “easy” era to grow up in, but there is a whole lot more to navigate now than when things were more analogue. More important than ever to keep the dialogue open between parents and children.
My sister and I had Claire Rayner’s Body Book when we were children and we found the reproductive section, especially the pictures, absolutely hilarious. The phrase “stands to attention” always makes me think of that particular picture!!
"The guy has quite a big todger, actually, which appears to shrink when they suddenly turn him back into a cartoon"
It happens to everyone at some point! Maybe being a cartoon is quite cold.
I had an older brother, I knew more than I should have by the age of 8.
All I remember from the 80's was chicken sex (the sex ed films, not a personal experience). As I knew words such as "spunk" and "orgasm", I think by the time we got to playtime, I told the rest of the class more than the films did.
That was a fun read, thank you!
I hope they gave you plenty of drugs for the triplet birth!
I mainly remember stuff that happened inside the chicken in animation form. It wasn’t very interesting as I’d already seen Deep Throat, which made me want to throw up.
It was a pirate copy that my brother got a hold of somehow. I barely saw it. The storyline wasn't up to much. This information from an older brother was almost literally for ill.
I wish I had a treasure trove like you did. I'm always envious of people who have generations of stuff to look through hidden in the attic.
I found accidental exposure to porn damaging. I couldn’t unsee it. I do worry about how easy it is for children today to access it by chance online. By the time my son was at primary school in the noughts, we were being being advised on how to apply parental controls and such, but it is a minefield.
I have my hoarder mum to thank for the archives. What I used to think of as “junk” is proving to be fascinating. I was so jealous of my friends’ minimalist homes when I was growing up and I’d always dreaded the time I’d have to clear my childhood home, but actually, it was cathartic. There WAS a whole lot of junk, but there were also treasures. Not “cash in the attic” treasures, but mementos, historical letters, photos and ephemera. So, thanks, mum!
Yeah, it all looked so sick to an 8 year old, although I pretended it wasn't. I don't remember the details, but I'm sure what kids have access to now if far darker.
I think we moved around too much for things to be kept, so apart from photos, there's nothing.
My wife was actually a sex advice writer when I met her, eight books with her writing partner, so she's noticed when one of her books goes missing off the top shelf, and is in one of the kids' rooms. For our daughter to have her to go to is pretty amazing, and then I handle the chats/questions from our son. I didn't get much info from my folks, so it's a low bar to do better than that. I find the car is a good place for these chats, with both people looking straight ahead.
I do remember one conversation very early on, where Emma told our daughter (maybe 3 at the time) the whole "the man gives the woman the seed" angle, and our daughter immediately asked about a single mom we knew, how that all worked, how they got the seed from the donor, what if he dropped it, etc. It all got very technical much faster than I'd expected, all on one drive home from preschool.
Great piece, as always. It's beyond amazing that you have all these diaries. Love the pamphlet, as well.
Thanks Rob, that’s really wise advice. Agree about in-car conversations, where there’s no expectation of eye contact.
How brilliant to have an in-house expert, plus publications that can be borrowed.
Yes, one question can lead to another. I had to follow up the ‘trousers’ comment with a brief mention of contraception! Although keeping your trousers on is not a bad method!
Considering it’s such a huge topic we are utterly useless at talking about it aren’t we? I remember those books. School was rubbish, pretty confusing - thank god for Just 17.
I’m pleased you found your diaries Wendy. So brilliant.
My grandad had an extensive porn collection that I would ogle when I was off ill from school - we'd go to their house as Mum worked. Mum also filled me in on the gory details on the way to school when I was about eight. I thought it was the most revolting thing I'd ever heard! (Though was intrigued how two men went about it even then.)
Thanks for commenting, Steven. My ‘worldly’ friend showed me her dad’s porn collection when I was nine. What we’d now consider soft porn (Mayfair etc), but pretty shocking to me, nonetheless.
Some of those early pamphlets my mum had cover same sex attraction in a fairly neutral way, while also mentioning the laws as they were then. But there are no mentions of the mechanics.
I was at a Catholic primary school. Nothing said about anything except that God was watching us. My parents spoke not a word, but one day a women's magazine was left open for me to find: 'How to tell your children about sex.' Mum knew I read everything. She wasn't there, didn't mention it, and never discussed sex and babies. Then the magazine disappeared. I don't know if she did the same with my sisters and brothers, but my older sister was open with me about her sex life, once she had one. Rather too open.
Biology at non-Catholic grammar school covered reproduction in a very perfunctory way. One girl fainted. This was clearly news to her. The teacher ended by saying 'As for contraception, there's only one word Rosebery girls need to know, and that's no.' Yep, we had teen pregnancies. One poor girl told no one until the baby was born. We had people from the Marriage Guidance Bureau in for a morning, and we met in small groups. My group discussion was good, the leader saying that she wanted to dispel myths. She had spoken to someone in another school who thought the penis had a bone in it. But I heard from other groups that they only talked about teenage spots.
Crikey. Shows what damage ignorance does. Thanks for your fascinating comment, Maria. Interesting that your mum found a way to put some info in front of you without actually saying a word!
This is great Wendy. Such a minefield. I recently strayed into what probably should have been parental territory with my granddaughter over a contemporary book about puberty called What’s Happening to Me? We got to the page about how making a baby actually happens. Very good - straightforward and clear. Saying it exactly how it is. Her response was “So you did this thing with grandpa twice?”
Thanks, Emma. That’s brilliant! Made me laugh.
Yes, my daughter told her little brother, with great drama, that mum and dad "had done sex TWICE", very proud of her deduction after school sex education around year 6.
Full marks for logic!
Thank you for commenting, Billy.
😂
I remember finding out a book about human reproduction at home when I was not a child but not yet a teenager. It had drawings and one of them showed a man and a woman with the man inside the woman. When I saw that and realised what was happening I thought, "Whaaaaat? It goes inside???" For some reason I thought human reproduction happened a bit like polinisation and that it was enough to touch the surface 😂
Yes! I think that was my assumption, too, Cristina! I hadn’t really thought through the logistics.
😂😂😂
I like this piece a lot Wendy. It reminds me of so many awkward conversations (and non-conversations) with my darling mum. As I write this my toes are curling. Thank you.
Thanks, Gillian. Hard to strike a balance, isn’t it? My mum was a mix of puritanical (clothed at all times; would cover herself in strategically placed flannels if I had to use the bathroom while she was in the bath. Sanitary products – “unmentionables” – were wrapped in brown paper in the airing cupboard). But not at all squeamish, and interested in science (she would have made a good surgeon!).
Dr Whites wrapped in brown paper! My sister and I were sent on a 3 mile walk to the village shop with a shopping list in a sealed envelope addressed to a strong woman who served customers before serve-yourself was a thing. One day my sister bravely and boldly asked ‘what’s in the brown paper?’and came the answer, after a thoughtful pause, ‘chocolates’. I don’t remember much beyond the shock and resentment that fuelled our long walk home thinking of all the chocolates our mum had eaten herself without sharing after we had made the long walk to get them. That was my sex education until a few years later when my dad sat us down as teenagers and told us we must be kind and helpful to our mum because she was poorly. We didn’t ask questions. We thought she was going to die. She sailed through the menopause without any obvious poorliness.
Oh Jo, that’s tragic! What a mystery it all was for you, then. And your dad’s comment, with no explanation of what he meant by ´poorly’. Argh! Thanks so much for reading, and for sharing that memory.
(My mum kept her Dr Whites wrapped in paper, too, stored in the airing cupboard. Called them her ´woolly-woollies’.)
Ooh I think we had the body book! We also had a pop up facts of life book (I remember one page opened to deliver a baby). Mom was pretty open and told us all the relevant info. But at school we only learned about periods - no sex Ed as such. No idea what the boys were taught!
Pop-up facts of life sounds genius, Georgina!
Yes, anyone who didn’t do biology at my school would have got zero sex education. And biology only covered plants and, like yours, I think the menstrual cycle. Next to useless!
It was a fun book! I'll have to have a Google, see if I can find it.
So many memories, Wendy. We were at primary school and the head teacher wheeled in the huge tv on a trolley - a few whoops from the boys, we thought it was a film. It was Living and Growing. I can't remember what my son's sex ed was at school, but walking down Finchley Road with his hand in mine he suddenly asked (apropos of nothing) "how does the man's sperm get into the woman's body?" and I explained "the man puts his penis into the woman's vagina and the sperm swims to the egg", trying not to be overheard by everyone in NW3. He looked horrified and spat "ughhhh... I will never do that". Mind you, when asking about public hair he looked similarly horrified and told me "I will shave my balls every day". Might remind him of that...
Ha, yes! The skill of fielding any question at any time. Good on you for not shushing him till you got indoors. My daughters were adamant when they heard what “snogging” was that they were never going anywhere near boys. I think we described it as a bit like eating a juicy melon.
I very much did that thing of ‘if he asks, tell him, in age appropriate language’ (had to go through that about his absent dad), and it really worked. He asked, I told him, and he was fine with it. Death too. I am pissing myself at eating a juicy melon! My first forays into snogging (with David Campbell) were a pointy tongue jabbing mine 🤢
A great survey of sex ed over the decades and Caroline’s comments were very funny. My parents decided it was time for me (as the eldest) to learn the facts of life and put The Body Book in my stocking (god forbid they’d actually talk to me about it). Only they mixed the stockings up and gave it to my younger sister, while I got a Richard Scarry book 🤦🏼♀️
Thanks, Sasha. Putting the need-to-knows in your Christmas stocking is a novel idea – how funny! I hope you and your sister got to read each other’s books!
We both pored over The Body Book on Christmas Day!
I bet!
Great piece, Wendy! When I started asking my Mum questions, back in the 1980s, I got the "special cuddle" version - but I never knew it came from Claire Rayner until now! Now it all makes sense. :D I remember seeing lots of science videos at school, too, which just made the "special cuddle" description funnier.
It passed into family legend so, when I had my own babies and my parents would come with us to the park, we'd see piles of frogs in the pond. I'd yell out, "Look Mum! All those frogs are having a giant special cuddle!" And we'd all laugh. ;D
Thanks, Sarah. Good to know that Claire Rayner had such influence. We got a lot of mileage out of that phrase!
There was physical info when I was at school but I don’t remember much about relationships or consent, though they did say ‘no means no’. Online safety wasn’t discussed much either (pre-smartphones). As soon as cameraphones came in a friend had to deal with a boy asking for nudes and that was totally new.
A policeman came into school to talk about drugs and said ‘girls, don’t leave your drinks unattended, keep your thumb in the bottle, it does happen here’ - then jovially warned us that the police could bodily search anyone they suspected of having drugs on them. He was trying to discourage drug use but in retrospect the message I took from this was that our only protectors were our own thumbs, and policemen could be sexual threats. Bleak!
Oh yikes. What mixed messages from the policeman. Very bleak, yes.
Yes, I stopped short of going into online safety. So much to say, but I stuck to facts of life. There were assemblies when M was at secondary about the risks of sexting and such. As I was involved in the parent voice group, I got a snapshot (no pun intended) of what they were covering and of what some of the real issues were in school, trying to help the kids navigate that.
Love thinking of Nana investigating the placenta! I never heard that story.
A friend recalled sadly in recent years that the high school sex Ed for teens in the early ‘00s could be summed up as how to put a condom on a cucumber — but no emotional stuff. It was the age of Girl Power and weirdly that seemed to mean that girls were hoped or expected to be confident & worldly all under our own initiative… choice & self-protection in any other sense was not on the curriculum.
That friend was harassed by a horse trainer ‘friend’ from the age of 11, and she cd have benefitted from some serious self-defence knowledge, which wasn’t really available to her. The stress combined with her cluelessness about his motives, wasted much time in what should have been happy teenage years!
I also remember another girl chatting to me at school, telling me her older boyfriend, by 2 years, was pressuring her.
I had no idea what to say! She seemed to think I was a wise soul, and clearly wanted advice from a classmate, not her parents, but there’s a big knowledge gap that friends would always struggle to fill. Just Seventeen must have been great to fill in on some of these much more complex aspects of growing up.
Thanks, Alex. Great comments.
The placenta was so typical of her. Gather round, children, let’s examine it first, shall we?! Trisha won’t mind!
Yes, lots of condoms on cucumbers in your day, I remember you talking about that. And you’re right about Girl Power. All the onus was on girls to be in charge, confident, body- and sex- positive, all that stuff.
I don’t think there was any “easy” era to grow up in, but there is a whole lot more to navigate now than when things were more analogue. More important than ever to keep the dialogue open between parents and children.
My sister and I had Claire Rayner’s Body Book when we were children and we found the reproductive section, especially the pictures, absolutely hilarious. The phrase “stands to attention” always makes me think of that particular picture!!
Ha, yes! That made me laugh when I was re-reading the book for this piece!
"The guy has quite a big todger, actually, which appears to shrink when they suddenly turn him back into a cartoon"
It happens to everyone at some point! Maybe being a cartoon is quite cold.
I had an older brother, I knew more than I should have by the age of 8.
All I remember from the 80's was chicken sex (the sex ed films, not a personal experience). As I knew words such as "spunk" and "orgasm", I think by the time we got to playtime, I told the rest of the class more than the films did.
That was a fun read, thank you!
I hope they gave you plenty of drugs for the triplet birth!
So the film talked about chickens and eggs? Sounds very Pilkington-esque: just look to nature for the clues, children!
Yes, older brothers can be a mine of information, for good or ill!
I mainly remember stuff that happened inside the chicken in animation form. It wasn’t very interesting as I’d already seen Deep Throat, which made me want to throw up.
Crikey, I’m guessing you dodged the age restrictions, then. I never saw it, but read about it.
It was a pirate copy that my brother got a hold of somehow. I barely saw it. The storyline wasn't up to much. This information from an older brother was almost literally for ill.
I wish I had a treasure trove like you did. I'm always envious of people who have generations of stuff to look through hidden in the attic.
I found accidental exposure to porn damaging. I couldn’t unsee it. I do worry about how easy it is for children today to access it by chance online. By the time my son was at primary school in the noughts, we were being being advised on how to apply parental controls and such, but it is a minefield.
I have my hoarder mum to thank for the archives. What I used to think of as “junk” is proving to be fascinating. I was so jealous of my friends’ minimalist homes when I was growing up and I’d always dreaded the time I’d have to clear my childhood home, but actually, it was cathartic. There WAS a whole lot of junk, but there were also treasures. Not “cash in the attic” treasures, but mementos, historical letters, photos and ephemera. So, thanks, mum!
Yeah, it all looked so sick to an 8 year old, although I pretended it wasn't. I don't remember the details, but I'm sure what kids have access to now if far darker.
I think we moved around too much for things to be kept, so apart from photos, there's nothing.
My wife was actually a sex advice writer when I met her, eight books with her writing partner, so she's noticed when one of her books goes missing off the top shelf, and is in one of the kids' rooms. For our daughter to have her to go to is pretty amazing, and then I handle the chats/questions from our son. I didn't get much info from my folks, so it's a low bar to do better than that. I find the car is a good place for these chats, with both people looking straight ahead.
I do remember one conversation very early on, where Emma told our daughter (maybe 3 at the time) the whole "the man gives the woman the seed" angle, and our daughter immediately asked about a single mom we knew, how that all worked, how they got the seed from the donor, what if he dropped it, etc. It all got very technical much faster than I'd expected, all on one drive home from preschool.
Great piece, as always. It's beyond amazing that you have all these diaries. Love the pamphlet, as well.
Thanks Rob, that’s really wise advice. Agree about in-car conversations, where there’s no expectation of eye contact.
How brilliant to have an in-house expert, plus publications that can be borrowed.
Yes, one question can lead to another. I had to follow up the ‘trousers’ comment with a brief mention of contraception! Although keeping your trousers on is not a bad method!
“Does is depend on whether they have their trousers on”
One of many laugh out loud moment Wendy, brilliant piece on sex education.
Thank you, Lisa! That phrase has become part of our family’s history!
Considering it’s such a huge topic we are utterly useless at talking about it aren’t we? I remember those books. School was rubbish, pretty confusing - thank god for Just 17.
I’m pleased you found your diaries Wendy. So brilliant.
Thanks Margaret. Sorry your school experience was rubbish, too.
I’m writing my diary this evening, as I realised how neglected it’s been since I started writing on Substack!
My grandad had an extensive porn collection that I would ogle when I was off ill from school - we'd go to their house as Mum worked. Mum also filled me in on the gory details on the way to school when I was about eight. I thought it was the most revolting thing I'd ever heard! (Though was intrigued how two men went about it even then.)
Thanks for commenting, Steven. My ‘worldly’ friend showed me her dad’s porn collection when I was nine. What we’d now consider soft porn (Mayfair etc), but pretty shocking to me, nonetheless.
Some of those early pamphlets my mum had cover same sex attraction in a fairly neutral way, while also mentioning the laws as they were then. But there are no mentions of the mechanics.
I was at a Catholic primary school. Nothing said about anything except that God was watching us. My parents spoke not a word, but one day a women's magazine was left open for me to find: 'How to tell your children about sex.' Mum knew I read everything. She wasn't there, didn't mention it, and never discussed sex and babies. Then the magazine disappeared. I don't know if she did the same with my sisters and brothers, but my older sister was open with me about her sex life, once she had one. Rather too open.
Biology at non-Catholic grammar school covered reproduction in a very perfunctory way. One girl fainted. This was clearly news to her. The teacher ended by saying 'As for contraception, there's only one word Rosebery girls need to know, and that's no.' Yep, we had teen pregnancies. One poor girl told no one until the baby was born. We had people from the Marriage Guidance Bureau in for a morning, and we met in small groups. My group discussion was good, the leader saying that she wanted to dispel myths. She had spoken to someone in another school who thought the penis had a bone in it. But I heard from other groups that they only talked about teenage spots.
Crikey. Shows what damage ignorance does. Thanks for your fascinating comment, Maria. Interesting that your mum found a way to put some info in front of you without actually saying a word!